Mason Dixon Relay Officials
03/08/2009 3:35:03 PM
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I want to preface my comments by saying thank you to the officials for their efforts in administering the meet. Most of them maybe all of them are unpaid or very little paid volunteers. They love the sport of track and field and we could not have meets like the Mason Dixon Games without them. I don't know what happened at the exchange zone of the girls 4 x 800m relay but I witnessed a foreshadowing of it in the 2A girls 4 x 400m Relay. In one of the later heats the officials failed to bring the girls off the wall for the exchange and the first 2 teams in the heat actually ran past the start of the exchange zone then ran back to hand the baton to their teammate standing out in lane four. They received the baton from a stand still then started their leg. The officials that are working the exchange zones have to be on their toes and get the runners in place quickly. The error on the girls 4 x 800m cost our team because our best runner went first and had the 1500m and the 3000m later in the meet. Hence, we did not run her when the race was re-run. That cost us 15 seconds because our alternate runner was that much slower than our #1 runner. I'm sure other teams may have experienced the same thing. Suggestions to prevent this from happening again: 1. A running clock near the finish line area that the officials and spectators can see. Any knowledgeable official knows that a girls 800m first leg will be complete somewhere between 2:20 and 2:50. Even if they have somehow miscounted laps they would know by the clock that the first exchange is coming up. Typically time ranges would apply to the 2nd and 3rd exchanges as well depending upon the race and speed of the heat. 2. A flip over lap counter that is managed by one official that is paying attention to only lead lap count that is visible to officials and spectators. 3. Consider eliminating lapped runners down to the top 12 or have all lapped runners move out to lane 3. It gets very confusing keeping up with the places when in some cases ie. 1500m and 3000m runners were lapped multiple times. This may seem a little harsh but there are all comers meets in the outdoor season that are more suited for lower level runners. Events like the Mason Dixon Games should attract the more competitive athletes. Each school was limited to 1 entry per event. That suggests that the entry should be somewhat competitive. If a runner is getting lapped multiple times they are not competitive and probably should not be in the race.
I want to preface my comments by saying thank you to the officials for their efforts in administering the meet. Most of them maybe all of them are unpaid or very little paid volunteers. They love the sport of track and field and we could not have meets like the Mason Dixon Games without them.

I don't know what happened at the exchange zone of the girls 4 x 800m relay but I witnessed a foreshadowing of it in the 2A girls 4 x 400m Relay. In one of the later heats the officials failed to bring the girls off the wall for the exchange and the first 2 teams in the heat actually ran past the start of the exchange zone then ran back to hand the baton to their teammate standing out in lane four. They received the baton from a stand still then started their leg.

The officials that are working the exchange zones have to be on their toes and get the runners in place quickly. The error on the girls 4 x 800m cost our team because our best runner went first and had the 1500m and the 3000m later in the meet. Hence, we did not run her when the race was re-run. That cost us 15 seconds because our alternate runner was that much slower than our #1 runner. I'm sure other teams may have experienced the same thing.

Suggestions to prevent this from happening again:

1. A running clock near the finish line area that the officials and spectators can see. Any knowledgeable official knows that a girls 800m first leg will be complete somewhere between 2:20 and 2:50. Even if they have somehow miscounted laps they would know by the clock that the first exchange is coming up. Typically time ranges would apply to the 2nd and 3rd exchanges as well depending upon the race and speed of the heat.

2. A flip over lap counter that is managed by one official that is paying attention to only lead lap count that is visible to officials and spectators.

3. Consider eliminating lapped runners down to the top 12 or have all lapped runners move out to lane 3. It gets very confusing keeping up with the places when in some cases ie. 1500m and 3000m runners were lapped multiple times. This may seem a little harsh but there are all comers meets in the outdoor season that are more suited for lower level runners. Events like the Mason Dixon Games should attract the more competitive athletes. Each school was limited to 1 entry per event. That suggests that the entry should be somewhat competitive. If a runner is getting lapped multiple times they are not competitive and probably should not be in the race.
03/08/2009 6:04:11 PM
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The officials were exhausted! There were more officials out there than needed. It is a thankless job, but somehow Gordon gets an amazing number to do it for a shirt and a couple meals. If that many are willing to volunteer, then they should not work more than two sessions, or if they do work all day they should rotate assignments for each session.
The officials were exhausted! There were more officials out there than needed. It is a thankless job, but somehow Gordon gets an amazing number to do it for a shirt and a couple meals. If that many are willing to volunteer, then they should not work more than two sessions, or if they do work all day they should rotate assignments for each session.
03/08/2009 7:39:06 PM
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My team was involved in the race too. I have to give huge, [b]HUGE[/b] props to my lead leg, Sarah Turi (a tough, tough kid). She ran it both times, didn't flinch, and competed very well. As far as the officiating goes I agree with both of the prior posts that those officials are simply amazing. Many of then worked 18-20 hours from Friday afternoon until Saturday night. It was disappointing for everyone in the race but it happened. I know that Kenny and the folks will work hard to make the meet better next time around.
My team was involved in the race too. I have to give huge, HUGE props to my lead leg, Sarah Turi (a tough, tough kid). She ran it both times, didn't flinch, and competed very well.

As far as the officiating goes I agree with both of the prior posts that those officials are simply amazing. Many of then worked 18-20 hours from Friday afternoon until Saturday night. It was disappointing for everyone in the race but it happened. I know that Kenny and the folks will work hard to make the meet better next time around.
03/08/2009 9:56:00 PM
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I am sure this will offend some - and I will apologize in advance should that be the case. I am not a coach, so I can speak freely here without fearing some type of retribution. I was in high school in the late 70's and competed in the Mason Dixon Games when the HS events were held in the morning/afternoon and the invitational events (and some HS finals) were held on Saturday night (what a thrill to see some of the biggest names of the time, such as Dick Burkle, Ray Flynn - I think John Walker ran here during that time also - the Tennessee State Tiger Belles (awesome), as well as the area colleges compete). This weekend was the first time in more than 25 years that I have been to the MD games, and I was underwhelmed. I understand that for a variety of reasons the character of the meet has changed, and that is fine, but my dissapointment is not in how the meet has changed, but how, in my opinion, it was not run very well. Regarding the Friday night middle school events, when a meet has 39 heats of the girls 55 meter dash alone there is something wrong. Also, I didnt count, but there had to be more than 30 heats of the 400 (girls and boys combined) - I am all for participation, but these numbers are outrageous. As for Saturday, the snafu in the AAA girls 4x800 was, in my opinion, inexcusable. This was billed as an indoor state championship? The athletes and fans deserve better. I felt so sorry for those girls. My point is that the Mason Dixon Games was at one time a world class meet, and there is no reason why, even in its current form as strictly a HS and MS event, that it cannot give a nod to the rich tradition of the meet and be run and organized in a professional manner.
I am sure this will offend some - and I will apologize in advance should that be the case. I am not a coach, so I can speak freely here without fearing some type of retribution.

I was in high school in the late 70's and competed in the Mason Dixon Games when the HS events were held in the morning/afternoon and the invitational events (and some HS finals) were held on Saturday night (what a thrill to see some of the biggest names of the time, such as Dick Burkle, Ray Flynn - I think John Walker ran here during that time also - the Tennessee State Tiger Belles (awesome), as well as the area colleges compete). This weekend was the first time in more than 25 years that I have been to the MD games, and I was underwhelmed. I understand that for a variety of reasons the character of the meet has changed, and that is fine, but my dissapointment is not in how the meet has changed, but how, in my opinion, it was not run very well. Regarding the Friday night middle school events, when a meet has 39 heats of the girls 55 meter dash alone there is something wrong. Also, I didnt count, but there had to be more than 30 heats of the 400 (girls and boys combined) - I am all for participation, but these numbers are outrageous.

As for Saturday, the snafu in the AAA girls 4x800 was, in my opinion, inexcusable. This was billed as an indoor state championship? The athletes and fans deserve better. I felt so sorry for those girls.

My point is that the Mason Dixon Games was at one time a world class meet, and there is no reason why, even in its current form as strictly a HS and MS event, that it cannot give a nod to the rich tradition of the meet and be run and organized in a professional manner.
03/08/2009 10:27:51 PM
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Maybe they need a set curfew, and maybe a bed check so they can perform the next day!!! [rofl]
Maybe they need a set curfew, and maybe a bed check so they can perform the next day!!!
03/09/2009 12:40:45 PM
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My two cents. This is similar to what happened recently at a college level championship event. Bellarmine, Southern Indiana and UW-Parkside were all trying to improve on their provisional times for indoor d2 nats. They missed the exchange of the first leg (1200m) I think it is unfair to put all of the blame on the officials. I dont think the first and second runners, or the coaches should get a pass on this kind of stuff. I was an 800/1500 runner in college. As an athlete, it isnt exceptable to miscount laps when you are running under 1600m. 3k/5k, ok I will gve you a pass, but not when you are running 4 laps. come on. Ok, say the first leg does get confused.. The second runner should be ready to get the stick knowing which lap they are to receive it on. I know they are youth athletes. I get that, and thats why its part of the coaching process to make sure they are aware of their events and what is happening with them In a 5k road race if you take a wrong turn and blame police or course markings, shame on you for not knowing the course.. I am not letting the officials off the hook, Im just saying more than just the officials need to share blame here. Thoughts?
My two cents.

This is similar to what happened recently at a college level championship event. Bellarmine, Southern Indiana and UW-Parkside were all trying to improve on their provisional times for indoor d2 nats. They missed the exchange of the first leg (1200m)

I think it is unfair to put all of the blame on the officials. I dont think the first and second runners, or the coaches should get a pass on this kind of stuff. I was an 800/1500 runner in college. As an athlete, it isnt exceptable to miscount laps when you are running under 1600m. 3k/5k, ok I will gve you a pass, but not when you are running 4 laps. come on. Ok, say the first leg does get confused.. The second runner should be ready to get the stick knowing which lap they are to receive it on. I know they are youth athletes. I get that, and thats why its part of the coaching process to make sure they are aware of their events and what is happening with them

In a 5k road race if you take a wrong turn and blame police or course markings, shame on you for not knowing the course.. I am not letting the officials off the hook, Im just saying more than just the officials need to share blame here.

Thoughts?
03/09/2009 12:56:01 PM
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[quote=runkevincc]I think it is unfair to put all of the blame on the officials. I dont think the first and second runners, or the coaches should get a pass on this kind of stuff. I was an 800/1500 runner in college. As an athlete, it isnt exceptable to miscount laps when you are running under 1600m. 3k/5k, ok I will gve you a pass, but not when you are running 4 laps. come on. Ok, say the first leg does get confused.. The second runner should be ready to get the stick knowing which lap they are to receive it on. I know they are youth athletes. I get that, and thats why its part of the coaching process to make sure they are aware of their events and what is happening with them[/quote] From my angle, it appeared that the 2nd runner from the lead team (Male) was walking onto the track to prepare to get the exchange and she was pulled back off the track by an official.
runkevincc wrote:
I think it is unfair to put all of the blame on the officials. I dont think the first and second runners, or the coaches should get a pass on this kind of stuff. I was an 800/1500 runner in college. As an athlete, it isnt exceptable to miscount laps when you are running under 1600m. 3k/5k, ok I will gve you a pass, but not when you are running 4 laps. come on. Ok, say the first leg does get confused.. The second runner should be ready to get the stick knowing which lap they are to receive it on. I know they are youth athletes. I get that, and thats why its part of the coaching process to make sure they are aware of their events and what is happening with them


From my angle, it appeared that the 2nd runner from the lead team (Male) was walking onto the track to prepare to get the exchange and she was pulled back off the track by an official.
03/09/2009 10:36:33 PM
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I saw the same thing as Prof. a couple of the girls were trying to go out and were sent back. As I said in my original post, I saw the same mistake in the 2A 4 x 400m relay. I can forgive the mistake once (2A 400m relay later heat) but fix the problem. They did not fix it because it happened again in the 3A 4 x 800m.
I saw the same thing as Prof. a couple of the girls were trying to go out and were sent back.
As I said in my original post, I saw the same mistake in the 2A 4 x 400m relay. I can forgive the mistake once (2A 400m relay later heat) but fix the problem. They did not fix it because it happened again in the 3A 4 x 800m.
03/10/2009 3:01:44 AM
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[quote=CCTrackDude]I am sure this will offend some - and I will apologize in advance should that be the case. I am not a coach, so I can speak freely here without fearing some type of retribution. I understand that for a variety of reasons the character of the meet has changed, and that is fine, but my dissapointment is not in how the meet has changed, but how, in my opinion, it was not run very well. Regarding the Friday night middle school events, when a meet has 39 heats of the girls 55 meter dash alone there is something wrong. Also, I didnt count, but there had to be more than 30 heats of the 400 (girls and boys combined) - I am all for participation, but these numbers are outrageous. [/quote]First id like to say that I am the Meet director for that meet and I have talked to some people on how the meet can be improved. My plan is to seek advice from coaches who run in the meet and from some who have put on meets. Im sure ill get a lot of suggestions on adding events and such. But participation is my primary goal...so i guess I should ask what is wrong with those numbers? There are some things I too would like to try and change but the numbers arent one of them. As far as Track & Field is concerened this is my mission in the sport...introduce kids to the sport. Id hope that not a lot of people share your opinion about the numbers, but im more than willing to listen to their reasons if they do.
CCTrackDude wrote:
I am sure this will offend some - and I will apologize in advance should that be the case. I am not a coach, so I can speak freely here without fearing some type of retribution.

I understand that for a variety of reasons the character of the meet has changed, and that is fine, but my dissapointment is not in how the meet has changed, but how, in my opinion, it was not run very well. Regarding the Friday night middle school events, when a meet has 39 heats of the girls 55 meter dash alone there is something wrong. Also, I didnt count, but there had to be more than 30 heats of the 400 (girls and boys combined) - I am all for participation, but these numbers are outrageous.

First id like to say that I am the Meet director for that meet and I have talked to some people on how the meet can be improved. My plan is to seek advice from coaches who run in the meet and from some who have put on meets. Im sure ill get a lot of suggestions on adding events and such. But participation is my primary goal...so i guess I should ask what is wrong with those numbers? There are some things I too would like to try and change but the numbers arent one of them. As far as Track & Field is concerened this is my mission in the sport...introduce kids to the sport. Id hope that not a lot of people share your opinion about the numbers, but im more than willing to listen to their reasons if they do.
03/10/2009 6:50:45 AM
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Suggestions on improvement? Haha, glad you asked. :-) This is all with respect to Friday night. 1. Put Audley Gordon in charge of the finish line and making sure things are done right, rather than on a turn somewhere waiting to wave a yellow flag. He's smart, has actually run in the last 50 years, and is a very personable guy. 2. Pay Chip to pole vault every year, but start him at 11' and only let him increase the height by 3" at a time, instead of 6". He gets double if he can do flips after each vault. Pay him triple if he'll do all of that in a Bear suit. :-) 3. The numbers on Friday night aren't the issue, it's always how the meet is run. In terms of efficiency, I think events like the 55s were pretty efficient - I don't think you can improve on how they did there. There needs to be better seeding in the other races though. E.g., in the 400, you should go with several sections of faster kids where you run maybe 6-7 kids per race. At some point, it should become 9-10 per race. In the 800, the typical race with the girls was a section with 1-2 girls who smoked the field. There should be better advance seeding there with respect to performance. The 1500 wasn't as bad, in fact they did a pretty decent job with the guys. 4. Start a Mason Dixon website where you get meet info and results, but also have access maybe to pictures of the top finishers (see below). Nothing fancy, but something you can refer to that parents and kids alike can access. 5. Get better awards on Friday night. You should give out 8 medals per event. Award them by calling kids out and present them to the kids while they stand on a podium of some sort. Take pictures of all the top finishers and then post them on a Mason Dixon website each year. Get a famous person to give out awards too, something they've done from time to time in the past. If you can't find anyone famous, then get the mayor. :-) 6. Oh yeah, and definitely hire the Brew3 dance crew to perform on the infield after the sprints!
Suggestions on improvement? Haha, glad you asked.

This is all with respect to Friday night.
1. Put Audley Gordon in charge of the finish line and making sure things are done right, rather than on a turn somewhere waiting to wave a yellow flag. He's smart, has actually run in the last 50 years, and is a very personable guy.

2. Pay Chip to pole vault every year, but start him at 11' and only let him increase the height by 3" at a time, instead of 6". He gets double if he can do flips after each vault. Pay him triple if he'll do all of that in a Bear suit.

3. The numbers on Friday night aren't the issue, it's always how the meet is run. In terms of efficiency, I think events like the 55s were pretty efficient - I don't think you can improve on how they did there. There needs to be better seeding in the other races though. E.g., in the 400, you should go with several sections of faster kids where you run maybe 6-7 kids per race. At some point, it should become 9-10 per race. In the 800, the typical race with the girls was a section with 1-2 girls who smoked the field. There should be better advance seeding there with respect to performance. The 1500 wasn't as bad, in fact they did a pretty decent job with the guys.

4. Start a Mason Dixon website where you get meet info and results, but also have access maybe to pictures of the top finishers (see below). Nothing fancy, but something you can refer to that parents and kids alike can access.

5. Get better awards on Friday night. You should give out 8 medals per event. Award them by calling kids out and present them to the kids while they stand on a podium of some sort. Take pictures of all the top finishers and then post them on a Mason Dixon website each year. Get a famous person to give out awards too, something they've done from time to time in the past. If you can't find anyone famous, then get the mayor.

6. Oh yeah, and definitely hire the Brew3 dance crew to perform on the infield after the sprints!
03/10/2009 8:15:37 AM
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Great suggestions from the Prof. I really like the idea of the meet website. As far as the seeding goes, I would think about possibly setting up an elite event in each event and then follow it with the open events. Sample schedule: 55m Elite Girls 55m Open Girls 55m Elite Boys 55m Open Boys 1500m Elite Girls 1500m Open Girls 1500m Elite Boys 1500m Open Boys...... Do this with all the events. This really shouldn't take up more time.
Great suggestions from the Prof. I really like the idea of the meet website.

As far as the seeding goes, I would think about possibly setting up an elite event in each event and then follow it with the open events.

Sample schedule:

55m Elite Girls
55m Open Girls
55m Elite Boys
55m Open Boys
1500m Elite Girls
1500m Open Girls
1500m Elite Boys
1500m Open Boys......

Do this with all the events.
This really shouldn't take up more time.
03/10/2009 8:39:45 AM
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Anyone who showed up on Friday was watching Chip at some point in the PV. I'll bet you could get the same effect by getting someone in the Shot too. Find an open guy who can get close to hitting the white boards on a fly and you'll have lots of people's attention. Add one more event, although it might be better on Sat, include a Devil take the Hindmost Mile. Guaranteed entertainment!
Anyone who showed up on Friday was watching Chip at some point in the PV. I'll bet you could get the same effect by getting someone in the Shot too. Find an open guy who can get close to hitting the white boards on a fly and you'll have lots of people's attention.

Add one more event, although it might be better on Sat, include a Devil take the Hindmost Mile. Guaranteed entertainment!
03/10/2009 12:47:07 PM
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[quote=professor]Anyone who showed up on Friday was watching Chip at some point in the PV. I'll bet you could get the same effect by getting someone in the Shot too. Find an open guy who can get close to hitting the white boards on a fly and you'll have lots of people's attention. Add one more event, although it might be better on Sat, include a Devil take the Hindmost Mile. Guaranteed entertainment![/quote] Actually there was a guy throwing the shot in the open who brought the timing crew out of their chairs a couple of times with the 16 pound shot.I think Chip may have kept the eyes off him. The races were seeded. Most times we get about 10 to 20 kids who send in times. there were over 100 in each race.Also, and I know this has been a seperate thread on here every year.....accurate seed times. Out of the seeds we got only a few were what id call current and accurate. So that also means there are a lot of superstars out there who dont know it till they run that first race. But knowing you two guys im sure youre talking about the distance races and they are probably are easier to seed and run a full heat. So for those events (800, 1500) it is possible. I just erased a long rambling paragraph on some potential changes but I think ill just talk to some of you coaches in person ;-)
professor wrote:
Anyone who showed up on Friday was watching Chip at some point in the PV. I'll bet you could get the same effect by getting someone in the Shot too. Find an open guy who can get close to hitting the white boards on a fly and you'll have lots of people's attention.

Add one more event, although it might be better on Sat, include a Devil take the Hindmost Mile. Guaranteed entertainment!
Actually there was a guy throwing the shot in the open who brought the timing crew out of their chairs a couple of times with the 16 pound shot.I think Chip may have kept the eyes off him. The races were seeded. Most times we get about 10 to 20 kids who send in times. there were over 100 in each race.Also, and I know this has been a seperate thread on here every year.....accurate seed times. Out of the seeds we got only a few were what id call current and accurate. So that also means there are a lot of superstars out there who dont know it till they run that first race. But knowing you two guys im sure youre talking about the distance races and they are probably are easier to seed and run a full heat. So for those events (800, 1500) it is possible. I just erased a long rambling paragraph on some potential changes but I think ill just talk to some of you coaches in person
03/10/2009 1:41:38 PM
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Yeah, it would be very hard to seed the 55m accurately. I can see the difficulty in that. I think seperating an elite race with open races would still add excitement and a sense of accomplishment for the athlete. Maybe allow verified times into the elite race and have seperate awards for the elite and open divisions and if there is a breakout runner he could would still win the 1st place open race medal. Then do the scoring according to time by lumping them all together. I think it is a very good meet as is, but that would add excitement for me. I would also point out that, for me anyway, the distance events were very entertaining.
Yeah, it would be very hard to seed the 55m accurately. I can see the difficulty in that. I think seperating an elite race with open races would still add excitement and a sense of accomplishment for the athlete. Maybe allow verified times into the elite race and have seperate awards for the elite and open divisions and if there is a breakout runner he could would still win the 1st place open race medal. Then do the scoring according to time by lumping them all together. I think it is a very good meet as is, but that would add excitement for me.

I would also point out that, for me anyway, the distance events were very entertaining.
03/10/2009 2:14:27 PM
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In hosting the Eastern Relays I have learned a lot about managing a big, good meet (you learn from the mistakes people point out). I think what has helped us make our meet what it is would help anyone who hosts a meet make theirs better. 1) Decide on the purpose of the meet, what will the meet look like in its ideal state? 2) What do you need to improve to get closer to that ideal state? 3) Take notes after the meet of what you need to do different next time around. 4) Read the notes that you took last time. 5) Ask for feedback from attendees and take it all seriously since they are paying customers. 6) Focus on one major improvement at a time and let the meet improve year by year. I also wonder with a meet like Mason Dixon how decisions are made. Since so many people who are all "Kentucky Track Legends" are involved in the meet it seems like it would be tough to make decisions. With the Eastern Relays I like to get feedback from a lot of people but I enjoy the fact that I can make most major decisions all by myself. :->
In hosting the Eastern Relays I have learned a lot about managing a big, good meet (you learn from the mistakes people point out).

I think what has helped us make our meet what it is would help anyone who hosts a meet make theirs better.
1) Decide on the purpose of the meet, what will the meet look like in its ideal state?
2) What do you need to improve to get closer to that ideal state?
3) Take notes after the meet of what you need to do different next time around.
4) Read the notes that you took last time.
5) Ask for feedback from attendees and take it all seriously since they are paying customers.
6) Focus on one major improvement at a time and let the meet improve year by year.

I also wonder with a meet like Mason Dixon how decisions are made. Since so many people who are all "Kentucky Track Legends" are involved in the meet it seems like it would be tough to make decisions. With the Eastern Relays I like to get feedback from a lot of people but I enjoy the fact that I can make most major decisions all by myself.
03/10/2009 2:18:35 PM
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Just as an aside... When I was a kid a friend of mine's grandpa was an official at the meet and when I was in elementary school we got to dress up in tuxedos and served as results runners from the finish line to the officials table. It is a cool memory. That must have been around 1990. When did the meet cease to be a college/pro meet?
Just as an aside... When I was a kid a friend of mine's grandpa was an official at the meet and when I was in elementary school we got to dress up in tuxedos and served as results runners from the finish line to the officials table. It is a cool memory. That must have been around 1990.

When did the meet cease to be a college/pro meet?
03/10/2009 2:42:15 PM
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Mike - you were a little kid in 1990. Ouch. I competed in the college/university Friday night division in the late 70's, and we would stay over to watch the World-Class athletes on Saturday night. The meet was in Freedom Hall, not Broadbent. I saw lots of Olympians and several world-records. The Mason-Dixon Club members decked out in their tuxes serving as officials added to the show. Seems like it continued in that format into the late-eighties, but as T & F went professional, the MD Games and many other meets on the indoor circuit could not afford the big names that could help sell tickets.
Mike - you were a little kid in 1990. Ouch.

I competed in the college/university Friday night division in the late 70's, and we would stay over to watch the World-Class athletes on Saturday night. The meet was in Freedom Hall, not Broadbent. I saw lots of Olympians and several world-records. The Mason-Dixon Club members decked out in their tuxes serving as officials added to the show. Seems like it continued in that format into the late-eighties, but as T & F went professional, the MD Games and many other meets on the indoor circuit could not afford the big names that could help sell tickets.
03/10/2009 9:56:58 PM
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[quote=theMike] With the Eastern Relays I like to get feedback from a lot of people but I enjoy the fact that I can make most major decisions all by myself. [/quote] Hey Mike! Still need a small hospitality area for us "throws" workers in the back forty! Any thoughts on my other suggestions? Later Hendodad
heMike wrote:
With the Eastern Relays I like to get feedback from a lot of people but I enjoy the fact that I can make most major decisions all by myself.


Hey Mike!
Still need a small hospitality area for us "throws" workers in the back forty!
Any thoughts on my other suggestions?

Later
Hendodad

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