Officiating costs athlete a state berth?
05/13/2012 10:03:22 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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In the discus throw, all performances and measurements are supposed to be in full inch increments. In one region an athlete threw a throw that ended in a fraction of an inch (.75 to be exact) and did not place in the top two. It ends up that the cutoff for state is the next full inch, or what his throw should have rounded up to. Because that official does not know how to properly mark the event, the athlete is the 11th in the at large list and therefore, will not qualify for state. I just think it is a shame that at a regional meet, the officials still get it wrong.
In the discus throw, all performances and measurements are supposed to be in full inch increments. In one region an athlete threw a throw that ended in a fraction of an inch (.75 to be exact) and did not place in the top two. It ends up that the cutoff for state is the next full inch, or what his throw should have rounded up to. Because that official does not know how to properly mark the event, the athlete is the 11th in the at large list and therefore, will not qualify for state.

I just think it is a shame that at a regional meet, the officials still get it wrong.
05/13/2012 10:34:54 AM
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Notice that also. Also shot was in full inches and not fraction of. A metric tape was likely used for measuement for that event and was converted to ft. and inches by officials at scoring. ( I had ran into this at region 1 back in 2009 and shown the discus official in the rule book that highschool is feet and inches and college is metric. He did not budge. Even had both measurements on it) The rule say that the distance is measured to the "lesser of the inch" A 118-0-3/4 measurement is a 118-0 legal throw. Hope this helps! Hendodad
Notice that also. Also shot was in full inches and not fraction of.
A metric tape was likely used for measuement for that event and was converted to ft. and inches by officials at scoring. ( I had ran into this at region 1 back in 2009 and shown the discus official in the rule book that highschool is feet and inches and college is metric. He did not budge. Even had both measurements on it)
The rule say that the distance is measured to the "lesser of the inch"
A 118-0-3/4 measurement is a 118-0 legal throw.

Hope this helps!

Hendodad
05/13/2012 12:48:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
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I wish officiating would know the rules and make sure it was done correctly. No matter if that mean rounding to the lesser of an inch and just making sure all rules arcoma obtained throughout the state. At regional meets this should be consistent and communicated for all officials in all 7 regions in all 3 classes.
I wish officiating would know the rules and make sure it was done correctly. No matter if that mean rounding to the lesser of an inch and just making sure all rules arcoma obtained throughout the state. At regional meets this should be consistent and communicated for all officials in all 7 regions in all 3 classes.
05/13/2012 1:37:37 PM
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@danum1throwa As Hendodad pointed out, the discus is measured to the next lower inch. The Hytek person should have dropped that fraction off. No measurement is rounded up. That is only in math class. If the Hytek person did not drop the fraction before sending it in to the KHSAA, the KHSAA office would have dropped the fraction as per the rule book, and the athlete would have still been 11th on the list.
@danum1throwa
As Hendodad pointed out, the discus is measured to the next lower inch. The Hytek person should have dropped that fraction off. No measurement is rounded up. That is only in math class. If the Hytek person did not drop the fraction before sending it in to the KHSAA, the KHSAA office would have dropped the fraction as per the rule book, and the athlete would have still been 11th on the list.
05/14/2012 10:49:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Majority of the time the real travesty at regional meets is the spotting, especially in the discus. More often than not you get someone who doesn’t know what they are doing. They are more concerned with coaching/watching other events than trying to mark where the disc lands. Many times these people are out of position and have to make a guess (+/- 5 feet). It’s sad that these people can sometimes influence the outcome of a kids season/career. Its funny, we spend thousands of dollars getting timing equipment that measures down to the hundredths of a second for runners but throwers get Joe Schmo with a measuring tape to arbitrarily guess where implements land, like Rodney Dangerfield said “no respect”….
Majority of the time the real travesty at regional meets is the spotting, especially in the discus. More often than not you get someone who doesn't know what they are doing. They are more concerned with coaching/watching other events than trying to mark where the disc lands. Many times these people are out of position and have to make a guess (+/- 5 feet). It's sad that these people can sometimes influence the outcome of a kids season/career.
Its funny, we spend thousands of dollars getting timing equipment that measures down to the hundredths of a second for runners but throwers get Joe Schmo with a measuring tape to arbitrarily guess where implements land, like Rodney Dangerfield said "no respect"….
05/14/2012 11:03:14 AM
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I was very lucky to have an excellent regional meet manager at regionals. And most of the teams in our region do an excellent job. For the last several years the regional manager has found officials for all of the event areas instead of depending on coaches to do the work. It has made the regional meet a great experience from a coaches perspective. I recall my first year coaching as an assistant our school was put in charge of the triple jump and I had no idea what the rules were at all. It is a shame that at such a meaningful meet there is often inconsistency and unskilled officiating. Track and field is such an official-heavy sport that it is very difficult, especially given that there are 21 regional meets within a week, to cover every event at every regional event with qualified, skilled, experienced officials. Thanks @bcrumbo for doing a great job in our region.
I was very lucky to have an excellent regional meet manager at regionals. And most of the teams in our region do an excellent job. For the last several years the regional manager has found officials for all of the event areas instead of depending on coaches to do the work. It has made the regional meet a great experience from a coaches perspective.

I recall my first year coaching as an assistant our school was put in charge of the triple jump and I had no idea what the rules were at all. It is a shame that at such a meaningful meet there is often inconsistency and unskilled officiating.

Track and field is such an official-heavy sport that it is very difficult, especially given that there are 21 regional meets within a week, to cover every event at every regional event with qualified, skilled, experienced officials.

Thanks @bcrumbo for doing a great job in our region.
05/14/2012 12:17:31 PM
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@theMike Thanks, Mike. I've always thought that you shouldn't host a big meet unless you can cover all the events (and you especially shouldn't charge an entry fee if you expect people to work for you). We only ask for help (other than at dual/tri meets) if we absolutely have to. Coaches bring their kids to meets to compete and coach, not to work.
@theMike

Thanks, Mike. I've always thought that you shouldn't host a big meet unless you can cover all the events (and you especially shouldn't charge an entry fee if you expect people to work for you). We only ask for help (other than at dual/tri meets) if we absolutely have to. Coaches bring their kids to meets to compete and coach, not to work.
05/16/2012 9:55:22 AM
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Human error is a factor in all sports, it is ashame, but it happens.
Human error is a factor in all sports, it is ashame, but it happens.
05/19/2012 11:45:08 AM
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Joined: May 2008
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I can not recall a single meet where i did not work either the shot or discus other than state in the 8 yrs i have been coaching. I am not complaining cause i knew if i was working an event it was going to be ran right.I have had the pleasure of working with Hendodad on numerous occasions and he knows his stuff. i have also saw ppl working them who didn't even know which side of the toe board to measure from. I don't have a problem with ppl working an event as long as they have a clue on how to do it.
I can not recall a single meet where i did not work either the shot or discus other than state in the 8 yrs i have been coaching. I am not complaining cause i knew if i was working an event it was going to be ran right.I have had the pleasure of working with Hendodad on numerous occasions and he knows his stuff. i have also saw ppl working them who didn't even know which side of the toe board to measure from. I don't have a problem with ppl working an event as long as they have a clue on how to do it.
05/19/2012 2:42:42 PM
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@danum1throwa This whole gripe-fest thread started because @danum1throwa didn't know the rules and was complaining about officials who did!
@danum1throwa

This whole gripe-fest thread started because @danum1throwa didn't know the rules and was complaining about officials who did!
05/19/2012 10:03:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
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@lyoncoach Hey Coach!!!!!! Long time no see. Had enjoyed the meets we did together. If you still do them, give me a shout on this site under "Throwers Only-2013" next year and I'll see if I can come down and we'll show them how it's done! :-) Hendodad
@lyoncoach

Hey Coach!!!!!!

Long time no see. Had enjoyed the meets we did together. If you still do
them, give me a shout on this site under "Throwers Only-2013" next year and
I'll see if I can come down and we'll show them how it's done!

Hendodad

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