steve prefontaine
05/29/2015 3:00:01 PM
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40 years ago today Steve Prefontaine ran his last race
40 years ago today Steve Prefontaine ran his last race
05/29/2015 7:41:05 PM
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"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." Steve Prefontaine
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
Steve Prefontaine
05/29/2015 9:29:41 PM
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Or ... maybe he shouldn't have been drinking and driving ... and he would still be here today. Real American Hero? = Billy Mills. End of Thread
Or ... maybe he shouldn't have been drinking and driving ... and he would still be here today.

Real American Hero? = Billy Mills. End of Thread
05/31/2015 11:18:32 AM
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Thread Continued. If any of you are Mark Rowe's friend on Facebook, he linked a very interesting article about the night Pre died, and the controversy around it. Eye witness says another car was involved. Shorter swears Pre was not drunk. Since I was not there 40 years ago and was only 5 months old, I cannot say definitively what happened.
Thread Continued.
If any of you are Mark Rowe's friend on Facebook, he linked a very interesting article about the night Pre died, and the controversy around it. Eye witness says another car was involved. Shorter swears Pre was not drunk. Since I was not there 40 years ago and was only 5 months old, I cannot say definitively what happened.
05/31/2015 2:05:07 PM
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06/01/2015 12:08:15 AM
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Interesting article I guess .... color me extremely skeptical. I will say this ... If there was another automobile involved ... I am still not sure it would change my opinion. As far as Shorter goes ... right/wrong/indifferent ... Frank is an intelligent human being ... but I get the impression he is doing whatever possible to ensure that the memory of his friend doesn't get tarnished because he shotgunned a few too many at the after party. I call BS on that article anyway ... towards the beginning ... it says that Good Time Steve turned to the left to avoid a car or something (I forgot ... I read it 9 hours ago) ... why would a guy driving a car in the right hand lane turn to the left? Was there someone in his lane? The article didn't really sound like that. A quick story that is somewhat relational .... About 18 years ago ... there was a man who was tasked to drive a few famous people around. He was observed by many people that day ... to the letter--a few of his peers watched this man have 2 "pineapple juices" during a quick dinner. No one else saw this man even having a water for the rest of the evening. This man functioned without any type of impairment ... made extremely important decisions during a very hectic evening. Everyone who saw this man (and there were many--and there is video tape that can be viewed on the internet to this day) could not testify to seeing or even the possibility that this man was impaired by alcohol. To conclude this wonderful story ... that man ended up driving into a pillar at very high speed ... and it resulted in the death of the most famous woman in the world at the time ... Princess Diana (Dodi Fayed also died). That man was a man by the name of Henri Paul ... who also died that evening. His BAC was well OVER the legal limit ... WELL over. What does that have to do with this topic? Easy ... no one thought Henri Paul was drunk either ... when he was absolutely plastered. Good time Steve with his .16 BAC was not sober. And I certainly would not expect his good buddy Shorter to do anything to tarnish the image of his friend. Good ole' Steve is always going to be a role model to most runners. Which is absolutely sad. He certainly ran fearless ... but for the life of me ... I just can't find it in my heart to bow down to a drunk driver who ended his own life because of a very poor decision. If anything ... it saddens me ... because this is what American runners have to look up to ... a drunk driver who died 40 years ago. Seriously ... is that all we have here? (Obviously ... Galen Rupp golden boy/silver spoon act is kind of hard to get behind). I obviously don't have the ability to understand why Good Time Steve is what runners in our country aspire to be. As I said before ... give me Billy Mills ... an Olympic Gold Medalist who beat the odds ... and has always been much more of a role model than Good Time Steve.
Interesting article I guess .... color me extremely skeptical.

I will say this ... If there was another automobile involved ... I am still not sure it would change my opinion.

As far as Shorter goes ... right/wrong/indifferent ... Frank is an intelligent human being ... but I get the impression he is doing whatever possible to ensure that the memory of his friend doesn't get tarnished because he shotgunned a few too many at the after party.

I call BS on that article anyway ... towards the beginning ... it says that Good Time Steve turned to the left to avoid a car or something (I forgot ... I read it 9 hours ago) ... why would a guy driving a car in the right hand lane turn to the left? Was there someone in his lane? The article didn't really sound like that.

A quick story that is somewhat relational ....

About 18 years ago ... there was a man who was tasked to drive a few famous people around. He was observed by many people that day ... to the letter--a few of his peers watched this man have 2 "pineapple juices" during a quick dinner. No one else saw this man even having a water for the rest of the evening.

This man functioned without any type of impairment ... made extremely important decisions during a very hectic evening. Everyone who saw this man (and there were many--and there is video tape that can be viewed on the internet to this day) could not testify to seeing or even the possibility that this man was impaired by alcohol.

To conclude this wonderful story ... that man ended up driving into a pillar at very high speed ... and it resulted in the death of the most famous woman in the world at the time ... Princess Diana (Dodi Fayed also died). That man was a man by the name of Henri Paul ... who also died that evening. His BAC was well OVER the legal limit ... WELL over.

What does that have to do with this topic? Easy ... no one thought Henri Paul was drunk either ... when he was absolutely plastered. Good time Steve with his .16 BAC was not sober. And I certainly would not expect his good buddy Shorter to do anything to tarnish the image of his friend.

Good ole' Steve is always going to be a role model to most runners. Which is absolutely sad. He certainly ran fearless ... but for the life of me ... I just can't find it in my heart to bow down to a drunk driver who ended his own life because of a very poor decision.

If anything ... it saddens me ... because this is what American runners have to look up to ... a drunk driver who died 40 years ago. Seriously ... is that all we have here? (Obviously ... Galen Rupp golden boy/silver spoon act is kind of hard to get behind).

I obviously don't have the ability to understand why Good Time Steve is what runners in our country aspire to be. As I said before ... give me Billy Mills ... an Olympic Gold Medalist who beat the odds ... and has always been much more of a role model than Good Time Steve.
06/01/2015 3:39:04 AM
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For those of us who were high school and college runners during Steve Prefontaine’s short spectacular career, it is hard to explain the impact he had on the American running scene. He was everything we wanted to be – fast, a fearless competitor, outspoken, and famous. He transcended the sport. When he raced it was in Sports Illustrated, in major newspapers across the country, on television. You didn’t have to be a track fanatic to know him; if you were any kind of sports fan you knew him. I had his poster on my bedroom wall in high school and it went with me to my dorm room for college. I still have the folder of Pre magazine and newspaper articles I collected. I was traveling north on I-75 when I heard on the radio about his death the morning after it happened, and I was so stunned that I had to pull to the side of the road to let it sink in before I could even continue driving. I don’t drink alcohol, and have very little patience or sympathy for people who put themselves and others in danger by drinking and driving, but that does not diminish the significance of what Prefontaine did for our sport. He (along with Frank Shorter, Bill Rogers, and a little later Alberto Salazar) launched the running boom of the 70’s and brought us from obscurity to where we are today. People started jogging, road races sprang up, the running shoe and fashion industry took off, the AAU was taken down, very much due to Steve Prefontaine.
For those of us who were high school and college runners during Steve Prefontaine's short spectacular career, it is hard to explain the impact he had on the American running scene. He was everything we wanted to be -- fast, a fearless competitor, outspoken, and famous. He transcended the sport. When he raced it was in Sports Illustrated, in major newspapers across the country, on television. You didn't have to be a track fanatic to know him; if you were any kind of sports fan you knew him. I had his poster on my bedroom wall in high school and it went with me to my dorm room for college. I still have the folder of Pre magazine and newspaper articles I collected. I was traveling north on I-75 when I heard on the radio about his death the morning after it happened, and I was so stunned that I had to pull to the side of the road to let it sink in before I could even continue driving.
I don't drink alcohol, and have very little patience or sympathy for people who put themselves and others in danger by drinking and driving, but that does not diminish the significance of what Prefontaine did for our sport. He (along with Frank Shorter, Bill Rogers, and a little later Alberto Salazar) launched the running boom of the 70's and brought us from obscurity to where we are today. People started jogging, road races sprang up, the running shoe and fashion industry took off, the AAU was taken down, very much due to Steve Prefontaine.
06/15/2015 9:40:50 PM
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Quickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame? As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize.
Quickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame?

As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize.
06/21/2015 11:23:16 PM
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Steve Prefontaine is who high school runners everywhere know and look up to because his hand in the beginnings of the largest "running" company in the world...Nike. They pour money into the PRE legacy...kids buy stuff...Oregon remains the mecca of distance running...the wheel keeps turning. Kids hanging up poster of Billy Mills makes money for no one.
Steve Prefontaine is who high school runners everywhere know and look up to because his hand in the beginnings of the largest "running" company in the world...Nike. They pour money into the PRE legacy...kids buy stuff...Oregon remains the mecca of distance running...the wheel keeps turning. Kids hanging up poster of Billy Mills makes money for no one.
06/22/2015 8:14:56 AM
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[quote=CCTrackDude]Quickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame? As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize.[/quote] @CCTrackDude I love it ... an internet message board ... and it is "stupid" for me to comment unless I knew him personally. Does that make you stupid for responding since you don't know me personally? Yeah ... didn't think so ... and guess what ... even though I think your post is complete rubbish ... I don't think that makes your opinion stupid .. and that is after the part where you basically say that drinking and driving in the old days wasn't really a big deal. Wow ... you really got me with ... "Culturally drinking and driving was more accepted at that time ... " Are you really trying to justify drinking and driving with a statement like that? Sorry ... you are not ever going to sell me on that. Thank goodness I wasn't raised to do things because they were culturally acceptable at certain times. For the record ... you are not all that much older than I am. I haven't ever driven after drinking alcohol ... but it has only taken one time driving up on the immediate aftermath of a DD accident .. seeing a person basically cut in half to realize how stupid your comments are. From there ... Good Time Steve was a horrible tactician in races. Ooohhhh .. Good Time Steve had guts ... he ran to win ... he went for it ... whatever. Sorry ... from where I sit (if you say otherwise ... then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth)you are every bit as judgmental--IF NOT MORE SO--than I am or ever will be. What's next? Gerry Lindgren is a great family man? Ha, ha, ha, ha ... whatever. You can have "Good Time" Steve. I will take a real hero .. BILLY MILLS. Olympic gold medalist, Marine Corps officer, EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING who beat the odds by doing things right.
CCTrackDude wrote:
Quickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame?

As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize.


@CCTrackDude

I love it ... an internet message board ... and it is "stupid" for me to comment unless I knew him personally.

Does that make you stupid for responding since you don't know me personally?

Yeah ... didn't think so ... and guess what ... even though I think your post is complete rubbish ... I don't think that makes your opinion stupid .. and that is after the part where you basically say that drinking and driving in the old days wasn't really a big deal.

Wow ... you really got me with ... "Culturally drinking and driving was more accepted at that time ... " Are you really trying to justify drinking and driving with a statement like that?

Sorry ... you are not ever going to sell me on that. Thank goodness I wasn't raised to do things because they were culturally acceptable at certain times.

For the record ... you are not all that much older than I am. I haven't ever driven after drinking alcohol ... but it has only taken one time driving up on the immediate aftermath of a DD accident .. seeing a person basically cut in half to realize how stupid your comments are.

From there ... Good Time Steve was a horrible tactician in races. Ooohhhh .. Good Time Steve had guts ... he ran to win ... he went for it ... whatever. Sorry ... from where I sit (if you say otherwise ... then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth)you are every bit as judgmental--IF NOT MORE SO--than I am or ever will be.

What's next? Gerry Lindgren is a great family man? Ha, ha, ha, ha ... whatever.

You can have "Good Time" Steve. I will take a real hero .. BILLY MILLS. Olympic gold medalist, Marine Corps officer, EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING who beat the odds by doing things right.
06/22/2015 9:56:59 AM
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I'll take Bob Kennedy.
I'll take Bob Kennedy.
06/22/2015 11:03:14 AM
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"Discussions" like this amuse me. quickslick is never going to be convinced that he shouldn't view Pre negatively for the way he died. Likewise, those who revere Pre will not be swayed from your opinion. But why can't you both be right? Do our heroes need to be as pure as driven snow to be considered heroic? If so, that's an extremely high bar that VERY few of those most of us consider inspirational would clear. Why can't we celebrate what Pre accomplished in his career and allow that to inspire us while at the same time recognizing that he was a flawed man who ultimately died due to a tragic mistake on his part? The list of heroic but tragically flawed men and women in our history is long indeed.
"Discussions" like this amuse me. quickslick is never going to be convinced that he shouldn't view Pre negatively for the way he died. Likewise, those who revere Pre will not be swayed from your opinion. But why can't you both be right? Do our heroes need to be as pure as driven snow to be considered heroic? If so, that's an extremely high bar that VERY few of those most of us consider inspirational would clear.

Why can't we celebrate what Pre accomplished in his career and allow that to inspire us while at the same time recognizing that he was a flawed man who ultimately died due to a tragic mistake on his part? The list of heroic but tragically flawed men and women in our history is long indeed.
06/24/2015 2:09:05 PM
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@runpinkbunny I'll take Craig Virgin. Who is quickslick?
@runpinkbunny
I'll take Craig Virgin.

Who is quickslick?
06/24/2015 8:57:40 PM
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@medleyc I will give you a hint ... I am REALLY QUICK ... and obviously pretty SLICK. You have probably seen me hanging out with the Professor at key moments in history.
@medleyc

I will give you a hint ... I am REALLY QUICK ... and obviously pretty SLICK.

You have probably seen me hanging out with the Professor at key moments in history.
06/24/2015 10:20:36 PM
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@quickslick You know who I am, instead of being cryptic or hiding behind an alias, why don't you just tell me who you are. I always like to know if the person I'm dealing with has any credibility.
@quickslick
You know who I am, instead of being cryptic or hiding behind an alias, why don't you just tell me who you are.
I always like to know if the person I'm dealing with has any credibility.
06/25/2015 12:13:25 AM
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@medleyc People's words and thoughts and how they express them determine their credibility, in my opinion. You can interpret that however you like in reference to our slick and quick message-boarder. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
@medleyc People's words and thoughts and how they express them determine their credibility, in my opinion. You can interpret that however you like in reference to our slick and quick message-boarder. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
06/25/2015 7:04:32 AM
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@medleyc Ha, ha, ha, ha ... come .. I certainly NOT hiding behind anything. I have a feeling that you know who J. Fisher may or may not be. Not to mention ... my thoughts on a drunk driver who is the subject of one of the best marketing campaigns in history has nothing to do with whether I am credible or not. Do I have to be credible to have an opinion? Does your opinion matter more because you are "credible"? I find it very interesting ... I am one of three people in the world who could care less who "Good Time" Steve is. Now people on this board question whether I am credible or not because I question the fact that "Good Time" Steve was a horrible role model. And at the very least ... talked out of both sides of his mouth. As I am sure that you are aware ... our sport is NOT puppy dogs and rainbows. Yet kids are constantly bombarded with all of the Pre crap all of the time .. which is nothing more than an incredibly calculated marketing campaign. How many kids have actually heard of Craig Virgin? Bob Kennedy? Billy Mills? All of which have been just as good ... if not better than "Good Time" Steve ever was. What is the difference? NIKE and Phil Knight. If you don't agree ... thats fine by me. I will never care whether my opinion is credible or not. That's how I feel. If I am going to reply to a topic ... I am not going to sugar coat how I feel about things. From there ... I am the last person in the world who is hiding from anything. If you ever want to talk about the subject ... give me a call. I promise ... you won't have to look to find me.
@medleyc

Ha, ha, ha, ha ... come .. I certainly NOT hiding behind anything.
I have a feeling that you know who J. Fisher may or may not be.

Not to mention ... my thoughts on a drunk driver who is the subject of one of the best marketing campaigns in history has nothing to do with whether I am credible or not.

Do I have to be credible to have an opinion?

Does your opinion matter more because you are "credible"?

I find it very interesting ... I am one of three people in the world who could care less who "Good Time" Steve is. Now people on this board question whether I am credible or not because I question the fact that "Good Time" Steve was a horrible role model. And at the very least ... talked out of both sides of his mouth.

As I am sure that you are aware ... our sport is NOT puppy dogs and rainbows. Yet kids are constantly bombarded with all of the Pre crap all of the time .. which is nothing more than an incredibly calculated marketing campaign.

How many kids have actually heard of Craig Virgin? Bob Kennedy? Billy Mills? All of which have been just as good ... if not better than "Good Time" Steve ever was. What is the difference? NIKE and Phil Knight. If you don't agree ... thats fine by me. I will never care whether my opinion is credible or not. That's how I feel. If I am going to reply to a topic ... I am not going to sugar coat how I feel about things.

From there ... I am the last person in the world who is hiding from anything.

If you ever want to talk about the subject ... give me a call. I promise ... you won't have to look to find me.
06/26/2015 4:31:51 PM
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[quote=quickslick]CCTrackDudeQuickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame? As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize. @CCTrackDude I love it ... an internet message board ... and it is "stupid" for me to comment unless I knew him personally. Does that make you stupid for responding since you don't know me personally? Yeah ... didn't think so ... and guess what ... even though I think your post is complete rubbish ... I don't think that makes your opinion stupid .. and that is after the part where you basically say that drinking and driving in the old days wasn't really a big deal. Wow ... you really got me with ... "Culturally drinking and driving was more accepted at that time ... " Are you really trying to justify drinking and driving with a statement like that? Sorry ... you are not ever going to sell me on that. Thank goodness I wasn't raised to do things because they were culturally acceptable at certain times. For the record ... you are not all that much older than I am. I haven't ever driven after drinking alcohol ... but it has only taken one time driving up on the immediate aftermath of a DD accident .. seeing a person basically cut in half to realize how stupid your comments are. From there ... Good Time Steve was a horrible tactician in races. Ooohhhh .. Good Time Steve had guts ... he ran to win ... he went for it ... whatever. Sorry ... from where I sit (if you say otherwise ... then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth)you are every bit as judgmental--IF NOT MORE SO--than I am or ever will be. What's next? Gerry Lindgren is a great family man? Ha, ha, ha, ha ... whatever. You can have "Good Time" Steve. I will take a real hero .. BILLY MILLS. Olympic gold medalist, Marine Corps officer, EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING who beat the odds by doing things right.[/quote] @quickslick If my comments were interpreted as justifying drinking and driving, I am sorry. My point was that, culturally, it was less of a concern and issue at that time than it is today - I did not mean to infer that it is in any way, shape or form "ok". That said, reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it? I never said you were stupid for commenting, and I actually never said YOU were stupid at all. I said that referring to Steve Prefontaine as "Good Time Steve", when you didn't even know him, was stupid. Smart people do and say stupid things all the time. I suppose the reason for my snarky comment was that this thread started as a simple observation that Pre (who, like it or not, IS an icon of American distance running) died 40 years ago. It was not an invitation to opine about Pre as a person, it was not a statement that Pre was the best ever, and it did not ask who should be a "real" hero. In spite of that, you took the opportunity to: (1) based on speculation alone, bash someone (whom you never met) for lifestyle choices that were typical of people at that time; 2) make it clear that you think Pre is a terrible role model; and (3) tell us all who YOU think is a true "hero" for American distance runners. In short, it appeared to me that your only real objective was to stir up shit, so I responded in kind.
ickslick wrote:
CCTrackDudeQuickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame?

As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize.

@CCTrackDude

I love it ... an internet message board ... and it is "stupid" for me to comment unless I knew him personally.

Does that make you stupid for responding since you don't know me personally?

Yeah ... didn't think so ... and guess what ... even though I think your post is complete rubbish ... I don't think that makes your opinion stupid .. and that is after the part where you basically say that drinking and driving in the old days wasn't really a big deal.

Wow ... you really got me with ... "Culturally drinking and driving was more accepted at that time ... " Are you really trying to justify drinking and driving with a statement like that?

Sorry ... you are not ever going to sell me on that. Thank goodness I wasn't raised to do things because they were culturally acceptable at certain times.

For the record ... you are not all that much older than I am. I haven't ever driven after drinking alcohol ... but it has only taken one time driving up on the immediate aftermath of a DD accident .. seeing a person basically cut in half to realize how stupid your comments are.

From there ... Good Time Steve was a horrible tactician in races. Ooohhhh .. Good Time Steve had guts ... he ran to win ... he went for it ... whatever. Sorry ... from where I sit (if you say otherwise ... then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth)you are every bit as judgmental--IF NOT MORE SO--than I am or ever will be.

What's next? Gerry Lindgren is a great family man? Ha, ha, ha, ha ... whatever.

You can have "Good Time" Steve. I will take a real hero .. BILLY MILLS. Olympic gold medalist, Marine Corps officer, EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING who beat the odds by doing things right.


@quickslick

If my comments were interpreted as justifying drinking and driving, I am sorry. My point was that, culturally, it was less of a concern and issue at that time than it is today - I did not mean to infer that it is in any way, shape or form "ok".

That said, reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it? I never said you were stupid for commenting, and I actually never said YOU were stupid at all. I said that referring to Steve Prefontaine as "Good Time Steve", when you didn't even know him, was stupid. Smart people do and say stupid things all the time.

I suppose the reason for my snarky comment was that this thread started as a simple observation that Pre (who, like it or not, IS an icon of American distance running) died 40 years ago. It was not an invitation to opine about Pre as a person, it was not a statement that Pre was the best ever, and it did not ask who should be a "real" hero. In spite of that, you took the opportunity to: (1) based on speculation alone, bash someone (whom you never met) for lifestyle choices that were typical of people at that time; 2) make it clear that you think Pre is a terrible role model; and (3) tell us all who YOU think is a true "hero" for American distance runners. In short, it appeared to me that your only real objective was to stir up shit, so I responded in kind.
06/26/2015 5:25:55 PM
User
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
[quote=CCTrackDude]. In spite of that, you took the opportunity to: (1) based on speculation alone, bash someone (whom you never met) for lifestyle choices that were typical of people at that time; 2) make it clear that you think Pre is a terrible role model; and (3) tell us all who YOU think is a true "hero" for American distance runners. In short, it appeared to me that your only real objective was to stir up shit, so I responded in kind.[/quote] @CCTrackDude I think that the greatest American distance runner is Alberto Salazar! Have you read The Duel in the Sun? I truly believe that if Alberto were running today he could take down Wilson Kipsang in the Mary. Also, he died for 14 minutes and resurrected himself! How many people in history have done that? I stand by Alberto 100%
CCTrackDude wrote:
. In spite of that, you took the opportunity to: (1) based on speculation alone, bash someone (whom you never met) for lifestyle choices that were typical of people at that time; 2) make it clear that you think Pre is a terrible role model; and (3) tell us all who YOU think is a true "hero" for American distance runners. In short, it appeared to me that your only real objective was to stir up shit, so I responded in kind.


@CCTrackDude

I think that the greatest American distance runner is Alberto Salazar! Have you read The Duel in the Sun? I truly believe that if Alberto were running today he could take down Wilson Kipsang in the Mary. Also, he died for 14 minutes and resurrected himself! How many people in history have done that? I stand by Alberto 100%
06/26/2015 5:52:18 PM
Coach
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 53
[quote=CCTrackDude]quickslickCCTrackDudeQuickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame? As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize. @CCTrackDude I love it ... an internet message board ... and it is "stupid" for me to comment unless I knew him personally. Does that make you stupid for responding since you don't know me personally? Yeah ... didn't think so ... and guess what ... even though I think your post is complete rubbish ... I don't think that makes your opinion stupid .. and that is after the part where you basically say that drinking and driving in the old days wasn't really a big deal. Wow ... you really got me with ... "Culturally drinking and driving was more accepted at that time ... " Are you really trying to justify drinking and driving with a statement like that? Sorry ... you are not ever going to sell me on that. Thank goodness I wasn't raised to do things because they were culturally acceptable at certain times. For the record ... you are not all that much older than I am. I haven't ever driven after drinking alcohol ... but it has only taken one time driving up on the immediate aftermath of a DD accident .. seeing a person basically cut in half to realize how stupid your comments are. From there ... Good Time Steve was a horrible tactician in races. Ooohhhh .. Good Time Steve had guts ... he ran to win ... he went for it ... whatever. Sorry ... from where I sit (if you say otherwise ... then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth)you are every bit as judgmental--IF NOT MORE SO--than I am or ever will be. What's next? Gerry Lindgren is a great family man? Ha, ha, ha, ha ... whatever. You can have "Good Time" Steve. I will take a real hero .. BILLY MILLS. Olympic gold medalist, Marine Corps officer, EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING who beat the odds by doing things right. @quickslick If my comments were interpreted as justifying drinking and driving, I am sorry. My point was that, culturally, it was less of a concern and issue at that time than it is today - I did not mean to infer that it is in any way, shape or form "ok". That said, reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it? I never said you were stupid for commenting, and I actually never said YOU were stupid at all. I said that referring to Steve Prefontaine as "Good Time Steve", when you didn't even know him, was stupid. Smart people do and say stupid things all the time. I suppose the reason for my snarky comment was that this thread started as a simple observation that Pre (who, like it or not, IS an icon of American distance running) died 40 years ago. It was not an invitation to opine about Pre as a person, it was not a statement that Pre was the best ever, and it did not ask who should be a "real" hero. In spite of that, you took the opportunity to: (1) based on speculation alone, bash someone (whom you never met) for lifestyle choices that were typical of people at that time; 2) make it clear that you think Pre is a terrible role model; and (3) tell us all who YOU think is a true "hero" for American distance runners. In short, it appeared to me that your only real objective was to stir up shit, so I responded in kind.[/quote] @CCTrackDude Really ... you question my reading comprehension? Since you didn't get it in post number 3 or the ACTUAL POST YOU QUOTED FROM ME .... BILLY MILLS. True American Hero, American Indian, United States Marine ... accomplished something that "Good Time" Steve didn't ... Gold Freaking Medal. I could careless if drinking/drinking and driving was more common. "Good Time" Steve had a BAC way over the legal limit. He was DRUNK. His poor decisions are responsible for his demise. I refuse to bow down to the all holy NIKE plan for manipulation of the running world. [b]THE FUNNIEST THING IS ... "GOOD TIME" STEVE WOULD HAVE HATED HOW HIS MEMORY HAS BEEN MANIPULATED BY SHEEPEOPLE LIKE THE ONES WHO DEFEND HIS POOR DECISIONS. [/b]
CCTrackDude wrote:
quickslickCCTrackDudeQuickslick - By your judgmental words, it sounds like you must have direct knowledge of what happened the night Prefontaine passed away! How did you meet Pre and how long did you know him? I assume you were with him the night he passed, so…how many beers did he have? Over what time frame?

As for me, I will say that, although in retrospect it was wrong, drinking and driving was not taboo in the 70's like it is today. I am 52, and in 1979, if I was pulled over and had an open beer in my car, the cop would have made me pour it out and send me on my way - even with me being under 21. Wrong? Yes. Irresponsible? Absolutely. But here is the thing: Culturally, drinking and driving was more accepted at that time, and when you are in your early twenties, you think you are invincible. So what Pre did - IF that was the cause of his accident - was not anything different than what 80% of the other young men in America would have done at that time. To criticize him for it is ridiculous, and to refer to him as "Good Time Steve" is just stupid unless you knew him personally. If you did, then I apologize.

@CCTrackDude

I love it ... an internet message board ... and it is "stupid" for me to comment unless I knew him personally.

Does that make you stupid for responding since you don't know me personally?

Yeah ... didn't think so ... and guess what ... even though I think your post is complete rubbish ... I don't think that makes your opinion stupid .. and that is after the part where you basically say that drinking and driving in the old days wasn't really a big deal.

Wow ... you really got me with ... "Culturally drinking and driving was more accepted at that time ... " Are you really trying to justify drinking and driving with a statement like that?

Sorry ... you are not ever going to sell me on that. Thank goodness I wasn't raised to do things because they were culturally acceptable at certain times.

For the record ... you are not all that much older than I am. I haven't ever driven after drinking alcohol ... but it has only taken one time driving up on the immediate aftermath of a DD accident .. seeing a person basically cut in half to realize how stupid your comments are.

From there ... Good Time Steve was a horrible tactician in races. Ooohhhh .. Good Time Steve had guts ... he ran to win ... he went for it ... whatever. Sorry ... from where I sit (if you say otherwise ... then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth)you are every bit as judgmental--IF NOT MORE SO--than I am or ever will be.

What's next? Gerry Lindgren is a great family man? Ha, ha, ha, ha ... whatever.

You can have "Good Time" Steve. I will take a real hero .. BILLY MILLS. Olympic gold medalist, Marine Corps officer, EXCEPTIONAL HUMAN BEING who beat the odds by doing things right.

@quickslick

If my comments were interpreted as justifying drinking and driving, I am sorry. My point was that, culturally, it was less of a concern and issue at that time than it is today - I did not mean to infer that it is in any way, shape or form "ok".

That said, reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it? I never said you were stupid for commenting, and I actually never said YOU were stupid at all. I said that referring to Steve Prefontaine as "Good Time Steve", when you didn't even know him, was stupid. Smart people do and say stupid things all the time.

I suppose the reason for my snarky comment was that this thread started as a simple observation that Pre (who, like it or not, IS an icon of American distance running) died 40 years ago. It was not an invitation to opine about Pre as a person, it was not a statement that Pre was the best ever, and it did not ask who should be a "real" hero. In spite of that, you took the opportunity to: (1) based on speculation alone, bash someone (whom you never met) for lifestyle choices that were typical of people at that time; 2) make it clear that you think Pre is a terrible role model; and (3) tell us all who YOU think is a true "hero" for American distance runners. In short, it appeared to me that your only real objective was to stir up shit, so I responded in kind.


@CCTrackDude

Really ... you question my reading comprehension?

Since you didn't get it in post number 3 or the ACTUAL POST YOU QUOTED FROM ME .... BILLY MILLS. True American Hero, American Indian, United States Marine ... accomplished something that "Good Time" Steve didn't ... Gold Freaking Medal.

I could careless if drinking/drinking and driving was more common. "Good Time" Steve had a BAC way over the legal limit. He was DRUNK. His poor decisions are responsible for his demise.

I refuse to bow down to the all holy NIKE plan for manipulation of the running world. THE FUNNIEST THING IS ... "GOOD TIME" STEVE WOULD HAVE HATED HOW HIS MEMORY HAS BEEN MANIPULATED BY SHEEPEOPLE LIKE THE ONES WHO DEFEND HIS POOR DECISIONS.

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